Doomstacks

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Vivisector 9999, Mar 8, 2017.

  1. Adam Solo

    Adam Solo Developer Administrator Commander

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    Sep 9, 2016
    Welcome to the forums Ashbery76, it's good to see you here.

    Since you mention the AI, try a game on Hard and let us know what you think. While not being very good at defending yet, I think the AI is already pretty decent in attacking/raiding. In general, we estimate the AI to be operating at around "one-third" of its maximum potential when we reach the final release. Also, the AI plays by the same rules as the Human player (i.e. they don't cheat), by the way.

    Ground combat is not in yet.
     
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  2. Masacre

    Masacre Cadet

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    Dec 27, 2016
    Greetings all!

    I thought I would put my two cents in regarding possibilities to reduce the effect of doom stacks. My apologies if these thoughts and ideas are simply not feasible to implement in the game as I have yet to actually play it but perhaps it still sparks some ideas that would work. Said ideas would also most likely require at least one extra mechanic be implemented which at the current point in development may simply not be possible. All that said, my ideas are as follows:

    Firstly, we need to take a look at what the pros and cons of a doom stack are. The pros have already been discussed, being that a doom stack against two or more separate forces of the same strength would generally end with the separate forces being defeated while leaving the stack with several fully functional ships left. So what are the cons? This has also been discussed in this thread, but in broad terms it would be the fact that they would require significant resources in terms of logistics and that they would be unwieldy and slow to respond to quick threats on many fronts, particularly in a defensive manner. So what I would suggest is the addition of one mechanic to make a particular strategy a lot more appealing and sound. Let's for simplicity's sake call the mechanic Logistics. Logistics would mean that planets (or star systems) each provide your fleets with goods (munitions, food, etc) required to keep the fleet functioning at full capacity. However, should that supply line be cut, the fleet would suffer from receiving fewer of said goods and hence be operating at a reduced efficiency. I would suggest that said efficiency loss should max out at about 50% but it could be set to practically any hard number or a reversed exponential curve. Now, how would you cut off said logistics? By simply blockading (not sure if blockading is in the game, may be a second required mechanic) the planet/planets that provide them. This would give the incentive to invest in smaller fleets to send out to planets to simply blockade and would make it very difficult for a doom stack to take care of all of them in a timely manner all while being in a severely hampered state. Played right, you could send small enough forces to the different logistics sources to even make the remainder of your forces equal to or surpass the power of said doom stack. It would also give you an incentive to actually build planetary defenses so that larger fleets would be required to blockade. Some cons of this system that I can think of is that it will speed up the destruction of a race that has fallen behind or is losing a war and that the mechanic could be hard to introduce to the AI system.

    I shall also provide 3 examples of how said mechanic could be implemented. Feel free to criticize any of these as well as the main concept to find flaws in logic or ways to improve. Or just for the heck it of. ;)

    Example 1:

    Simple percentage of percentage system. Max reduced efficiency percentage would be determined by how many of your total planets are blockaded. One of two planets, 50% of the max percentage, one of four, 25% and so on. Easy to implement but feels a bit silly logically as there is no reason as to why a planet suddenly produces less just because you got a second planet.

    Example 2:

    Fleets tied to planets (or systems) for logistics. When creating a fleet said fleet must be tied to a specific logistics source that is displayed in either the fleets name or somewhere else in the UI. If the planet is blockaded, any fleet that gets its logistics from it gets the full reduced efficiency straight away. Several fleets could be tied to same planet/system (would not be beneficial though) or several different planets/systems to spread out the risks of blockades. This example would put a bit more emphasis on early expansion. It also makes a bit more sense logically but may be somewhat convoluted and hard to grasp for players.

    Example 3:

    Logistics mechanic tied to resource. Each planet/system produces a certain amount of a logistics resource that can be expanded through research or buildings. The total or this resource tells you how many ships you can supply without getting a reduced efficiency penalty. By having a planet/system blockaded its logistics resource will be removed (temporarily) from your total and may end up increasing or giving you a penalty in efficiency. This example could also be a way to discourage too many ships late game. This would be my favorite example but may be the most difficult to implement due to it also requiring a resource to be included in the game.

    Apologies for the long-winded post but I hope it was worth the read. I shall be keeping my eyes on the progress of this game as it certainly has a lot of potential.
     
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  3. Konstantine

    Konstantine Moderator Captain

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    Oct 19, 2016
    No need to apologize and certainly worth the read, actually I read it a few times before responding to be honest.
    I think that once you play the game you will see that many of the valid points you bring up regarding logistics have been elegantly abstracted in ISG to achieve the same results you suggest. It would be beneficial to have your further opinion on the matter once you have a better understanding of those as you could point out any perceived deficiencies.
    You may also note, that Doom Stacks are not really an issue in ISG and it comes off fairly naturally which really helps with the immersion. On harder levels at least, I find both the AI and myself wisely distributing forces to protect valuable assets.
    I only bring this up because you state that you haven't actually played it. As your post is very well thought out I would love to hear your custom views on ISG after you have become familiarized with it.
     
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