Hot posts in thread: Would you rather have a modern Master of Orion 2 or a game that takes a more unique direction?

  1. Konstantine

    Konstantine Grand Admiral

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    No it isn't and following this thread I'm not really sure what @JOM means. I appreciate the feedback but would have preffered had he actually pointed out what makes ISG deficient and why he feels the way he does.

    Now let's go back in time for a bit.

    I remember MoO1 and played it quite a lot, it was enjoyable. When MoO2 came out, it was not an updated carbon-copy of MoO1. Star Systems had multiple planets, you had leaders and almost everything about Ships got a total makeover.There were other changes and enhancements as well but the end result was that MoO2 was an "evolvement" of MoO1 not just a re-imaged product. Microprose of course had the added advantage of not dealing with Copyright issues, as such they were able to keep enough from MoO in MoO2 that the player had no problem identifying the game as a MoO GAME.

    ISG has no such luxuries. Races will need new names and will also need to be diferrent enough so that one does not feel like these are pirated races from another game with only a name -change. There are other factors as well but there is no need to mention them one by one as you are all capable enough to understand the implications.

    So anyone who thought that they were going to get a carbon-copy of MoO2 with updated graphics and UI is going to be disappointed. To be honest though. I already have MoO2 and have played it to death, I want something more. I want what MoO3 could have been... and tthis is where ISG comes in.

    The feel of the game is very MoO2, from the single screen map to the limited number of ships, the tech tree, leaders etc. It is a new game but it certainly feels like something out of the MoO universe.

    I will be honest here, there is quite a lot of content that will be getting added soon, never forget that this game is presently in Pre-Alpha... and that is why I am disapointed by what Jom wrote.

    We have a game in Pre-Alpha but he seems to have given up on it

    We have Devs that take feedback seriously, but rather than providding some... he seems to have given up on it.

    No game will please anyone but I do not take kindly to anyone looking at a product that is no-where near finished and deciding they already know how the game will evolve. Trust me, I have more information than most of you, and I still know better than to think I know what ISG will look like as a finished product. I can guess, maybe even extrapolate but...

    So here is my un-solicited advice to JOM and anyone else reading.

    Speak up gents. Get into details if you can. You have a great opportunity here in that your voice matters and can actually help shape the game going forward.
     
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  2. HarpiaHarpyja

    HarpiaHarpyja Cadet

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    Well what does modernized mean? I'm sure it's more than just improved graphics and UI. I think that's really what underlies the big question of this thread. Despite the wording it's not a binary choice.
     
  3. vmxa

    vmxa Commander

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    Well hold on for a modern Moo1 as Ray is making it. It is called Remnants of Precursors.
     
  4. JOM

    JOM Ensign

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    As far as I remember the devs said in the beginning that they want to bring MOO into the modern age. That was something exciting and kept me interested as a MOO fan. If they said: we want to bring Starruler, SotS into the modern age, I would have read it and thought "okay, good for the SotS fans, but I dont really care... next game".

    What I want to say is that this project was for me always a MOO next generation game. If the devs lose their focus on MOO and and make just a new 4x game its not really interesting for me to follow.

    There are plenty of excellent space 4x games on steam, some are triple A multimillion dollar titles like Stellaris or Galciv, some are fun small gems like Stars in Shadow or Polaris Sector. So there is no shortage of "non-MOO four-exes". i can play them 24/7. What I cannot play is my beloved MOO1 and MOO2 in a modernized version.

    Maybe thats the reason I dont visit this site as often anymore. I hope the best for the project but it seems to develope more in a generic space 4x game and not MOO next gen as it was propagated originally when my memory is correct.
     
  5. HarpiaHarpyja

    HarpiaHarpyja Cadet

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    Sorry, but just can't resist responding to this, the card game diplomacy in SR2 was refreshing and very well executed.
     
  6. Wodzu

    Wodzu Lieutenant

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    I personally think that ISG follows a right direction. I am getting MOO2 vibe from it, and I have "just one more turn" syndrom diagnosed :D which is great.
     
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  7. JOM

    JOM Ensign

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    I want a MOO2 clone with updated graphics, AI and interface. Maybe a couple of additional quality of life features like modding friendly and larger strategic/tactical maps, but nothing else. Even the races should be extremely close to the original. (when copyright allows)

    Everybody, me included has its own favorite 4x beside MOO2, may the be called SotS, Space Empire IV or Star Ruler. Thats ok. But ISG should be dedicated not to these games but to MOO2. The dev team should not loose its focus and dabbling around with own rule changes or in the end the whole project will not be worth the effort,
     
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  8. CrazyElf

    CrazyElf Lieutenant

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    Yes ... SOTS did get better with expansions. Luckily, ISG seems to be in good shape from launch in terms of stability, and it is slowly getting better in terms of gameplay.
     
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  9. rxnnxs

    rxnnxs Ensign

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    SOTS (Sword of the Stars) was really nice, but has in my eyes some flaws.
    It was the comic style and the "aye sir" things that was too redundant and childish.
    Overall I loved the way it was done, but missed the planet handling. They evolved almost by themselfes, and that could have been overworked for the second part.
    Tankers were done great as well as the star lanes and how the commands were given.

    And in my eyes, the second one was a disaster. They changed everything completely. They had so many half done things in it, it was not funny.
     
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  10. IvanK

    IvanK Lieutenant

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    Why not both :)? There are dozens of new first person shooters every year, each inspired by different predecessor or trying out new thing. Why not the same for grand strategies.

    There is a lot to be gained through iteration. See Anno games evolved. In the first one you'd unlock a new building every now and then but the game never told you what you need to do to for next unlock. In later games that info was available in game, UI is much more streamlined, some boring mechanics are dropped some interesting ones are added. You may think that DWU is good enough but a bit of new jazz may pleasantly surprise you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  11. vmxa

    vmxa Commander

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    There is no reason to clone DWU, it works just fine on today's rigs. Its graphics are acceptable, you gain little. Moo is a DOS game and has low res graphics, so many would like a modern version.

    You need at least a few things to have a good candidate. A large fan base, poor graphics and designed for very old pc's is a decent start.
     
  12. Konstantine

    Konstantine Grand Admiral

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    Perhaps, but not everyone has the same tastes. Either way ISG is inspired by MoO2 but... I'm sure you will find many mechanics that were inspired by other games of the genre in ISG as well, ISG did not ignore those games. Personally I like the result.
     
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  13. CHUKI

    CHUKI Cadet

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    Just to add a little fuel to the fire;
    There are better games to clone imo. Yes MoO is a classic and one of the best... but it's over 15 years old now... how about a Distant Worlds clone? If one is to clone a game, why not a more modern classic?
    I loved MoO too, but I was like 17 when it was released... it wouldn't pass muster to 35 yr old me...
     
  14. rxnnxs

    rxnnxs Ensign

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    A more unique one.

    Because why shouldn't I play moo2 when it is still running like a charm? No game would be as good as the original if the new game would be exactly as the old.
    Just because it is too old to give me a good feeling or it feels outdated? Maybe a little. But then I know that I am old.. I have to accept that fact :)

    So.. those new additions that ISG offers are really great. I miss the ground fight. And thats all I am waiting for :) But I am sure there are many new things that I did not even dream of but will love when I find out!
     
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  15. vmxa

    vmxa Commander

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    I sure understood that it is a facsimile for Moo2.
     
  16. CHUKI

    CHUKI Cadet

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    Pretty much my experience with the sots1, and yes SOTS 2 was a train wreck, which killed me as I was so looking forward to it, it had so much potential... the ship models and combat were amazing... to look at. But nothing worked and it never got out of the gate before the drama started... not going to go on as it just makes me mad to remember that fiasco... shame it wasn't the last game to fail miserably after initial strong expectation (And a previous good track record)
     
  17. vmxa

    vmxa Commander

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    When I first got SoTs I was not very happy with. Much later I came back when all the expansions had come out. I found it then to be a lot of fun. I finally was changed into a fan of the combat. I still was not real happy with the way they present the tech tree, but I learned to live with it. I still play it from time to time.

    The sequel was a coaster only, not fit to install. It seems to have put them out of business, coupled wit the way they treated visitors to their site.

    It is more of a challenge than most all of the 4x space games imo. You should give it a go for sure Konstantine.
     
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  18. Konstantine

    Konstantine Grand Admiral

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    Where I see the word clone as not appropriate is that it signifies an "exact" copy or duplicate. ISG is clearly not an exact copy or duplicate of MoO2 and I like the analogy you use IvanK.
     
  19. IvanK

    IvanK Lieutenant

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    No and no. I get different kick from ISG then I do from MoO 2 therefore I don't consider one a clone of the other, an inspiration yes but not a clone. For me they are like handball and basketball, they are both played on same parquet, look very similar when you think about it but nobody would call them clone of each other.
     
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  20. Konstantine

    Konstantine Grand Admiral

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    Semantics gents,
    It "feels" like MoO2 without being a copy. There are both similarities to MoO2 as well as new and novel approaches. Add to that a bit of some other titles and you have ISG.

    It is potentially the best game since MoO2 to retain the style and flavor. Clone, spiritual successor... what does it matter in the end?

    What does matter is that it seems ready to scratch that itch we all have for a "modern" MoO2 "type" of game.
     
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