First off, I'd like to say i'm pretty excited about this project and am looking forward to see it come to fruition. That said, here are some things I think are crucial: There absolutely must be a 3D star map ala Sword of the Stars and any ship should be able to reach any star as long as the FTL tech and range allow it. No hard and fast "space lanes" or "jump points". I think the astrogation model in SOTS I is ideal, especially with race-specific FTL drive types and tech trees. That said, I think FTL tech should be subject to being stolen/traded for between races. The mission based movement model of SOTS II is just plain stupid, though. I should be able to send a single scout ship into the middle of interstellar space and park it there if I want to as long as i have the fuel/FTL type to do that. For that matter, tech trees should always have some race specific items, but absolutely no tech should be off limits for being stolen/salvaged/traded. Some techs should be more EXPENSIVE to certain races and only available via trade/espionage/salvage but never completely off limits to ever have. Combat should be fully interactive tactical combat or give the option of "computer resolved" combat. None of this "command point"/fleet size combat limit crap. I should be able to send every ship I own into a single combat if I want without some BS "command" tech. Graphics card can't handle real time tactical combat of 1000 ships and 5000 fighters? Tough cookies. Get a better GPU or resolve that combat automatically. Custom ship design is essential but not too overly simplistic. Lots of slots/mounting options on lots of different hull types as tech is gained. Carriers and fighters are an absolute must. Ground combat with transports/marines should absolutely be possible to take over a planet via ground assault. I've never seen a good way to handle interactive ground combat that didn't seem really simplistic and dumb (StarDrive), but I'm sure there's a way to make it more interesting than a simple "computer resolved" type result. Space bombardment into submission should also be possible. Stars should have the ability to have multiple habitable planets (with less habitable planets being an option once you have certain tech), and you should be able to delegate the development/improvement of colonized planets at the system level. There needs to be some way to handle recruitment of governors, but not some lame "hero" system ala StarDrive where you only have a few "slots" to go around. You should be able to delegate governors to every single system if you want, but have a pool of bureaucrats to draw from, some more trustworthy/competent than others. While I do despise the mission-centric movement model of SOTS II, you ought to be able to create an armada/task force and give it some basic orders that result in automated/delegated behavior like "patrol the border between these waypoints" or "explore unexplored space" or "move in stealth mode into this area and scan for enemy activity", etc. Espionage mission options should include inciting particular planets to rebellion or even bribing ones with untrustworthy governors or high revolt risk to switch allegiance. Espionage should also be more rational with respect to star travel. If you can't send a scout ship far enough to spy on the Douchian Empire, how the hell are you going to get a biological spy there? Give more realistic options such as "send robot probe", "bribe dissidents at X system via encrypted message", etc. One or more of the races should be "silicoid" or somesuch and be able to take advantage of otherwise "dead" uninhabitable planets other carbon based races can't use, with commensurate disadvantages to compensate. Don't get stupid with random events/pirates/planet eaters/alien super races. These should be creative and make the game more interesting throwing in the occasional monkey wrench but not a BS deus ex machina play to keep clever players in check. I see that crap in other games and its pure BS. Don't do it. I'm sure I'll have more later but those are the ones that I've always had issues with in previous 4x games.
You betcha. In fact, we're already using multi-threading for some things, and we plan to keep exploiting those multiple cores as these days multiple CPUs is pretty much established as the norm. And it's not very hard to use either.
Great! IMHO, you should definitely make this a well known fact. I say this because it makes me happy and I can't be the only one!!
You know what I would love to see back in a game... A "Palace" view such as it was done in the first Civ games. Every time you reached some kind of millestone you were able to build some new part of it. The more "grandiose" your palace the more great you were But this is very trivial of course. But to be honest what I miss a lot on 4x is the feeling to be the leader, the emperor... something giving me the envy to play again and again for my empire To add on obdurant feature request there is something I was thinking . Why not using WEGO. Look as for example the mechanics of Star Hammer: The Vanguard Prophecy. They work and are really great. I think it could be so nice to get such tactical battle with a deep 4x experience. Unfortunatly Star Hammer missed the empire management and expansion layer and focused on a bad campaign system... for ref :
You know, that's something I also miss a lot. Perhaps you've played and remember in SimCity, when you could create a bigger house for yourself, or town hall, or what the case was, when you reached a certain threshold. Don't know if this is something that would fit in our game, but I just thought of letting you know that I share your sentiment
Good post. I agree in general but some thoughts: If possible, ground combat should be skipped all together first release; if we want a really good one, time is needed to figure out a good system. As far as I can tell, it's still only IG that got it right. I say make a thought-provoking ground combat or don't bother at all. IMO, skip espionage first release. Focus on making a really indepth diplomacy instead. It's much more important and espionage itself can be an important piece of the game, but it needs and deserves more attention than what's found in your average 4X. Unique techs really should be unique and powerful but not overwhelming in it's influence of the race playstyle. I'm happy with just going SotS style really. I want to name any single space 4X that has better (=fun, indepth, unpredictable, meaningful) research system but I can't. Ship design needs to matter. I'm happy if it's "streamlined" down just so the AI can use it properly. Any style works for me, SotS or StarDrive/StarRuler but definitely not DW type of "design" that's largely inconsequential. This is fairly irrelevant but pls don't go the Polaris Sector route of naming every tech after real life particles or objects. "Baryon gun", "Heavy Boson gun" etc. I want my Mass Drivers and particle beams! I totally understand btw if you opted to include as much features as you can from the start and then elaborating on them later.
I have played many (if not most) of the games in the genre 4x. Some of the things that have always attracted me or that I would dream to find in a game are: 1) Ability to have a large tech tree. But I would not want the search terms at once (reached the last discovery available in the tree). One might implement smaller systems, more powerful, or that require less power to operate. So it would make sense to maintain research centers to a high level of development. 2) If you must invest time in developing colonies, it would be nice to have a view of how the colony evolves (eg. Master of Orion or the old fantasy Master of Magic). In this light it would be nice to have the ability to create a list of buildings (a kind of blue-print that can be loaded in a new colony, in order to guide the development until the end of the buildings that are listed). 3) Implement a tactical space combat system. (Would be nice in 3D, but also a good 2d with many options can fit) I saw some ideas, The game "The Mandate" seems to have an interesting 3D battle system. Personally I like to have control of how the ships act in battle. You can set different levels for each hull. Long-range, short-range, medium-range, medium. Each ship would have a role and a time to intervene in the clash. But the thing I hate the most ... and see a clash that is calculated and played without any intervention from the player. For charity can be handy an automatism but must be a choice ... not an obligation. 4) Adventure, Adventure and Adventure. A universe in which every world, every anomaly, every piece of loose rock in space, hiding a few surprises. Good or bad does not matter, the important thing is that the exploration of the map means "discovery". Wrecks, hostile aliens, ancient civilizations, artifacts, pirates, rescue missions. All this makes the game (glue for the pants) keeping you glued to the game. I like how Stellaris implements less developed civilizations. You can subdue or assist in the development. This is an intriguing aspect to be considered. 5) Missions and Crew. It would be nice to explore the universe and carry out missions with a real crew. That can face the risks and the rewards of missions. There are many ways to do this, depending on how much you want in micro management. If then in certain conditions, epic events could lead to the creation of heroes that could be used to manage some aspects of the game, or provide bonuses, would give a touch of realism to everything. 6) Naturally ground missions necessarily lead to "planetary assaults", resulting in sieges, blockades, orbital bombardment, and even planetary destruction. Here it would be nice to have a management of clashes in 3d or 2d ... with the possibility for the attacker to send reinforcements, as well as for the defender to receive aid to repel the invader. 7) Construction of objects in space. Starbases, Shipyards, Orbiting habitats, Dyson spheres or Ring worlds, are all useful things and welcome, but it would be nice if they could have a population that grows and develops over time. I imagine a race which will be almost totally destroyed and survives thanks to a small space station. From that with time can colonize a planet. From there in time regain strength and in the future take revenge of their attackers. Maybe it's too much, but if it were possible to implement it... WOW would be a game to remember for decades.
Yeah! This is cool stuff. The galaxy is a vast space. Who knows what is out there? We should always have that desire to go out there and discover the unknown...to see what cool new things exist...and maybe get lucky(or unlucky) that they change the way we see ourselves and the future we have. I don't think having a simple "Event" system can really achieve this because IMHO it just boils down to simple choices. Something more complex, would make for some more interesting situations later in the game.
Would be really nice if there was an exploration end-game path in 4x. No idea how that will pan out or what contributes to it, but maybe a sub-win condition for science / tech win scenario? Just throwing out crazy ideas
I think that the combat section warrants a tread all by its self. Maybe even two : space and ground combat. After all - exterminating is a serious business
As the dev diaries release I expect we will be seeing many threads on all aspects of gameplay. Combat will certainly be no exception!
Woa I just checked the mandate... love what I saw there. Boarding, exploration, combat... really nice stuff for a game where you are at the command of a single vessel. Will keep an eye on it
Galaxy map graphics aren't that important to me. I like the system used in Aurora, which is very ugly to look at but is chock full of information. Turn based combat on the other hand, is very important. In short I'd love to play a game with a huge galaxy, Where your ship design has a definite effect and has to match your naval doctrine, IE a close range fleet doctrine won't work if you have thinly skinned slow ships with missile weapons. Detailed turn based combat with good graphics, I'd take performance over beauty though. Exploration is relevant right up to the game. A Dwarf Fortress like ability to tell interesting new stories with every new game.
yeah, it would be great if we could see the lore each ship has gathered through his life. also the captains log should be readable! lets say it would be great if you could see in a captains log where the ship has fought so far and what was damaged, how many got killed and so on. we should also know how many people serve on a ship. it gives us so much more imagination how they would feel out there..
I want to see homeworlds that have a realistic level of defense. In MOO1 you could build unlimited missile bases, but in MOO2 only a single missile base, single starbase, etc, it was lame. Look at Earth today with its 7.5 billion people, and how many of them are heavily armed, and all of the armies scattered across the planet. I want a homeworld that has 10,000 missile bases, space minefields, beam weapon bases on the moon by the thousands, fighters by thousands. The US alone has a 2,300 fighter jets already. Taking a homeworld should be the most difficult challenge possible in the game, much harder than taking Orion. And once you have defeated its defenses and plan to drop a few marine transports, you'd be met by billions of "armed civilians" that take part in their planets defenses. This ground combat and gorilla warfare should go on for almost the entire remainder of the game. Does anyone think the people of Earth would just sit by and let them selves be conquered by aliens? They would all fight for the survival of humanity, many would fight for religious reasons, but they would most definitely fight forever.
You are totally right, but you should consider the following: How much can all those missile Bases do against a threat from "above"? They are not able to fire at an "UFO" that easy, but as you say, it would be really hard to take the whole earth by ground forces. This would never happen, or lets say, not in the agressive way... the easier way would be (hello CIA) to destabilize regions... (or hello david icke) But i would also like to see this at a great scale, and taking a planet is hard, very hard. On the other hand, lets look at a spaceship, i.e. a carrier like it would be a carrier here on earth. russia has just one, and that one is heading straight to the place where it can build up some pressure. also, not 10.000 missile bases would be able to hit this thing (because they are stationary AND not dual use and most not able to fire that easy to a moving target) (ok, they could level up ;-)). but u-boats are some realistic threat. (ching chang chong) ok, i am not talking here about A-bombs. they made the carriers obsolete (if, and only IF the A-Bomb is taken into account). what i want to say also is, that even one carrier in space should have some serious arguments on board. if you look at the space games, it happens really fast that there are so many forces in space, that outnumber the battles at the sea by far. now i would like to think about a space ship carrier as a ship that has really a size that is half a kilometer long. using atomic missiles, this one could lay waste to the biggest cities on earth in no time. at the other hand, only one anti missile defense could counter it (if at the right side of the planet or in the space). and i also want to plea to the developers, to implement some realistic distances. sure there must be a way to do both: 1. give us a feeling about the distances that are so huge, that without many visual enhancement (or other sensors) the ships are so far away that they are invisible but at the same time already destroyed because the weapons reach so far. 2. let us oversee the whole battle
Havent seen anything on leaders/commanders always loved these, with added bonuses from experienced gained, such as fleet command sizes. Wouild like in general a game play feature that makes everyship more important and or less ships per game as is the norm now ...there is always way to many ships.
Defense, Defense, Defense. Every planet in the Solar System should have some Defense and Offense capabillity. Think Shields, Missles, and Mines. Missles with some form of seeking guidence do not have to be Aimed, Cluster Mines can be activated remotely, and or sent on the warheads of some missles. The mines if Magnetic would be drawn to the ships. and be devastating. There could also be Gun Platforms in Orbit around planets and artificial stations created from Rocks moved an put into orbit around the Planets, as well as Orbits around the Sun. All of which could have their own propulsion systems that could automatically move them into position for Defense. Also deep space Sensors could Both alert and guide all systems into the Best pattern for Defense and Attack. Sensors should be both Narrow an Wide Band, in order to prevent a sneak attack on the Home World of that system. Ships of all kinds in the area, could be used for Defense and Attack, and Yes Nukes and any other Hi tech weapons should be used, any thing less would otherwise be stupid when considering the survival of a World. Of course the Level of Defense is entirely dependent on the Level of Tech developed or given to that system. So it could be almost Zero for beginning colonys to Max for Developed Worlds.
