Hello! Just wondering did you considered using simultaneous turn-based combat system for the game? So that first both sides would give their commands to their ships and then the ships would execute them simultaneously. As this way neither side would have the advantage of going first. (Something like this was used in Star Trek: Birth Of The Federation) Since at least to me that would have seemed like the next step to take from MOO2 combat system.
Welcome aboard @MikkoM We had a discussion a little over two years ago about just that, though I used Ageod's Civil war as an example. If all the possible kinks could be resolved, it would be a great innovation for a 4x game and add to realism (no one waits for you to finish your turn in real combat). The things is, even though I was the original proponent of it back then, it just would not work without radical changes in how combat is handled, meaning that some serious limitations would be incurred in the number of ships that could participate in a battle, and thought would need to be given to giving orders to groups of ships instead of individually. That's not to say that the idea is without merit, but it has been discussed and there are many more consequences from such an action than meets the eye.
Yes it certainly would take more effort and considerations to make such a system work, although I don`t know why individual ships couldn`t be given some sort of markers in it to indicate what commands they have already received, thus making commanding individual ships also possible. Anyway to me the classic MOO 2 model of first all my ships go and only then all of your ships get to go most certainly wasn`t a particular strength of the game, but rather a 1990`s tech weakness. Although most space 4X combat systems with their limited or even non existing player commands still can`t compete with it despite of this.
I think you misunderstood what I wrote, my bad, I should have been clearer. Markers as you suggest would work fine if the combat were between a half dozen to a dozen ships per side. Once you start getting into larger numbers, (and players have reported some combats with numbers that astonished me), it wouldn't be as practical, perhaps even not viable. At that point, you need to have a way to control groups of ships, and indicate their orders and movements via visible paths... it would get messy. The other option would be to limit battles to a predefined maximum number of ships. If dome on an absolute basis, I would hate that as un-realistic. If done in waves (X% of your forces engage first, followed by Y%, etc), it would be more palatable but disrupt the flow of combat by breaking it into multiple actions. As I said, I was the proponent for WEGO over IGOUGO... but there are multiple hurdles involved in implementing that. Additional suggestions are of course most welcome
But don`t you already have those problems now at least to some extent if we are talking about absolutely massive combats and ships are given orders individually? As it takes a lot of time to go through your ships individually then also. So in either case some sort of options to give orders to groups of ships as well could be beneficial. Also if there are concerns about the general performance issues of computer hardware when all of the ships execute commands simultanously, perhaps this phase could be subtly divided into little phases that the computer would then execute very rapidly. (As for example in sci-fi series and movies you don`t often see a ship firing all of its weapons at once either, but usually in some sort of sequence.) Although don`t now if this would anymore be a problem for modern computers like it was with Birth of The Federation (1999) where a big battle with lots of ships firing at once could take the computers of that day relatively long to calculate and execute. Anyway overall as you now have the game released already I think drastic changes such as the simultaneous turn-based combat or any other very big and radical changes to the combat system would most likely be a consideration for a possible sequel at this point. As if I was you I would put my immediate focus now on polishing and perfecting the system you know have, especially as I have understood you have a very small team working on this game. And to that end does the current combat system have anything in it that addresses the big elefant of the classic MOO 2 combat, the big advantage it gives to the side that gets to go first. And how is the side that goes first determined? Is it always the player or do things like in game tech affect it? And also how difficult would it be to mod the combat system so that the first all my ships go and then all of your ships go could be transformed to a more chess like movement where both sides move one ship at a time. (For testing purposes).
Yes we do, and solutions are being examined to minimize those problems, the things is, with a WEGO system those problems would be amplified. All TBS games of this nature, featuring tactical combat, have issues with large fleets facing off against one-another, the focus has to be in making it fun without turning it into a chore. WEGO works great in the games where I am moving Division or Corps size units, as there is really just a a handful of those units that will participate in combat, here it is considerably more. Besides, the system as is now, allows you to pull off some amazing things, (feels great to slip behind an enemy and target their un-shielded aft section). Ahh, not my thing. I'm not a Dev or a coder, just a volunteer. IRL I have designed some applications, but after that I handed off to a dev team and it was their task to bring it to life. Though I can say this with my limited knowledge, performance would become more resource intensive in a WEGO system when larger size fleets face off, it would be one more issue that would need to be addressed Completely agree with you. For the first question I can offer this. You drop out of warp into the combat map in a random "loose" formation, not lined up perfectly, and the distance between you and the enemy is random. Going first is not as advantageous as it was in MoO2. Leader initiative, tech, and some defensive structures are all factors in determining who goes first. As far as modding combat to a chess like movement (sounds cool by the way), it is a question best answered by one of the devs...
The combat system in Master of Orion 2 was heavily inspired by Star Fleet Battles, a table top game of space combat. Simultaneous movement/combat had existed in wargames for ages. But the designers of that went with an IGOYOUGO system, presumably because they liked it, and gasp, so do many other people.
The turn-based system is much simpler, and a major advantage of this game is simplifying mechanics so the game is fun rather than work. As a coder, I can confidently say simultaneous would in no way be taxing on any hardware of the past decade--it's purely a design decision.
I think that at this point, there are too many barriers that would make this impractical. The only issue I see is where there are large maps where there are quite a few battles at once. Otherwise, it seems pretty reasonable.
