Hot posts in thread: [Beta] Fighter Bugs and Initial Feedback

We could resolve item 2. The others will have to wait for post-release.

 

Just wondering if you were able to look into these items?

 

They have reduced cost with miniaturization (only cost, not space). Cost and space shouldn't change between classes. If it does, let me know.

\Edit: I stand corrected. Cost does change with class, but space does not.

 

Also good with this.

 

Sounds good to me.

I didn't realize that. I noticed they had different space or cost depending on ship size, but I didn't realize miniaturization didn't impact the space requirements.

 

I think we could increase their space and cost a little. After all, a 25 to 35 difference in damage is quite a lot. So, I propose we change 70 cost and 40 space to 100 cost and 50 space. Phasors have 100 cost and 35 space, by the way. Wutzite has double accuracy penalties, so they are more effective at close range.

Fighters require 60 space at the moment. That's 13% space of a battleship and 27% space of a cruiser. I suggest we leave it and then update if we think is required. We have to remember tha fighters are very easily countered with PD weapons, so they may not be as menacing as we may think. That said, if you think we should increase the space requirement let me know.

Note: Fighter bays cost decreases with miniaturization, but space requirements do not, the same for bomber bays.

 

I see you decided against Phasors getting a space increase but added a cost increase. I hadn't proposed one anyway, so I'm fine with that. Removing armor piercing from them on fighters is enough. I am less concerned about them on regular ships, but a cost increase seems fine too.

I had proposed a space/cost increase for Wurtzite Cannons. Do you think one is warranted for normal ships given the +10 (40%) max damage increase?

Also should Fighter Bays get a slight space/cost increase to accomodate their new power level, or are they fine as-is still? I am not sure either way, but they get pretty small with high miniaturization level.

Everything else looks good to me.

 

After re-checking Phasors and what you've said, I think the space increase was not for the best. Kept at 30 base space.

As for cost I think it's warranted, especially because of the stun ability and the fact that you can equip both AP and SP in Phasors. Also Graviton is 60 space while Plasma is 150, so 100 seems alright.

 

Yes. It is quite a versatile weapon, but that comes with a price.

 

Ok, I think all the changes were done regarding this topic.

Changes made:
- Phasors space requirements changed rom 30 to 35
- Phasors cost increased from 80 to 100
- Wurtzite Cannon max damage changed from 25 to 35
- Fighters only equip armor piercing or shield piercer modifications with the right level of miniaturization
- Fighters can't equip phasors armor piercing due to space and power limitations (phasor weapon description updated to state this constraint)

Am I missing anything else?

 

Thanks for all the comments. I think we are going to be in a good place with the changes. If our concern becomes fighters being too strong afterward, we can always adjust. Ideally the AI and players will learn to counter fighters once they start taking heavy damage from them to mitigate their effectiveness.

With this change, I believe Wurtzite Cannon will now also be the only mid-high level armor piercing weapon for fighters? They should be a more appealing option for them now between the damage increase and unique armor piercing heavy metal shells.

 

Good point.

Yes, we'll go with disallowing AP for phasors for technical reasons (one of which may be not having enough space in fighters for both modificaitons). I'll add a note on the phasors description. Thanks.

 

If both are researched, it will equip Disruptor since it has a bigger max damage.

35 max damage with double accuracy penalties seems acceptable. Still far from 50 from Gauss Coil, and Gauss has SP, which arguably can be seen as better. We can also increase space/cost. Weapons only allow modifications when the right miniaturization level is reached. This is not the case for fighters at the moment, but it should be the case for fighters as well.

Phasors only allow modifications when the right miniaturization level is reached, as for all other weapons. The only exception is fighters at the moment, but that should change.

Ensuring AI uses hull-re-inforcement more is also a good suggestion.

I think we could increase the space or cost for phasors a little bit.

Disruptors don't get their damage reduced by range, which is huge. However, they have double accuracy penalties. They are more accurate than kinetics, but that is canceled by this "double accuracy penalty".

Accuracy is not reduced with distance for Gauss. So, it has exceptional accuracy. Gauss only allows modifications when the right miniaturization level is reached, as for all other weapons.

I'm going to make these changes as time allows. Thanks.

 

@Adam Solo - I am unclear on which weapon fighters get if both Disruptor Beam and Gauss-Coil gun are researched as both are the same tier of weapon. Is it just the most recently researched one? I researched Disruptor after having Gauss-Coil and it switched me to Disruptor Beam.

1. Here is my breakdown/view on the weapons, mostly from a fighter perspective, but overall as well.
   
2. I am also including some proposed number tweaks, but no new mechanics to implement.
   
3. Worth noting that Squadron Commander can impact damage by up to +75% on fighters and bombers.
4. Fighter Bay sizes may need base cost/size increased slightly to account for stronger fighters.
5. If additional fighters are added down the road, say 6 or 8 to a wing, one possibility is to add a "Fighter Sized" (working title) modifier that provides -70% base weapon damage instead of -50% damage. We change fighters to require "Fighter Sized" versions of weapons (Wurtzite, Phasors, etc.) instead of PD weapons. The additional damage reduction balances as 4 fighters (less damage), 6 (similar damage), 8 (more damage).

Wurtzite Cannon -
Is a specialized close-range weapon that isn't very special, potent, or scary.
Is not a straight upgrade from the Railgun one level below it which serves a different role.
Currently can do less damage than the lower tech Railgun or Phasors due to accuracy and mod availability.

Conclusion
When used by ships or fighters, using these should require you to stack ship attack buffs and find a way to get in close (before being destroyed) to make them worthwhile. Defending commanders should fear such ships closing in with them and equip approprite measures to counter ships and fighters using these short range weapons.

1. Increase damage from 25 to 35 (40%). You can try 30, but I think that's still too weak.
2. Increase space/cost to reflect this conventional "hardest metal available", which could be heavy/rare.
3. Delay armor piercing ability until weapon would normally have it.

Fighter specific info:
Max damage for fighters increases from 48 to 68. Average damage is certain to be less due to accuracy unless ship is well designed for it.


Phasors -
Is the most versatile weapon in the game mod-wise.
Only weapon capable of bypassing shields and armor at the same time.
Has a stun ability.

Conclusion
Hopefully these may become less "must have" once the Wurtzite Cannon has a role. I like that they are versatile and want to avoid changing that. Currently armor + shield piercing is too strong against low hull/structure found on lower tier armors.

1. Delay armor and shield piercing abilities until weapon would normally have it.
2. Ensure AI uses hull reinforcement more often in their designs to counter modded dual pierce phasors strategies.

Fighter specific info:
Max damage for fighters is 40. This will often be the average damage as well. Chance to stun and dual pierce.


Disruptor Beam -
Similar to Wurtzite Cannon, but more accurate because they are beams.
High raw damage potential.
No piercing modifiers.

Conclusion
60 damage is quite a bit higher than 35 (proposed) of Wurtzite, but they lack any piercing. A good well rounded weapon.

1. No changes recommended at this time.

Fighter specific info:
Max damage is 120. Average damage may be somewhat less due to accuracy. No piercing, but 120 per volley is decent.


Gauss-Coil Gun -
Exceptional accuracy at range for a kinetic.
Solid damage
Can provide shield piercing.

Conclusion
Exceptional accuracy make these a well rounded weapon. Gauss-Coil Gun changes things up with shield piercing instead of armor piercing.

1. Delay shield piercing modifier until weapon would normally have it (rank 9).

Fighter specific info:
Max damage is 100. Average damage is likely to be 100 due to accuracy bonuses. Shield piercing helps make that damage count.

 

Wurtzite Cannons may indeed be underpowered all around. The double accuracy penalty hurts them badly, and I don't know what benefit they have to warrant that.

Contrast their penalties to the penalities Phasors have. How are they worse than Wurtzite Cannons, a higher level kinetic tech? How are they better?

Max damage is important, but so is average damage. Phasors may still have higher average damage because they aren't likely to miss. Plus no shields to worry about, and the stun chance.