Let's look at victory conditions

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by CrazyElf, Apr 17, 2017.

  1. CrazyElf

    CrazyElf Lieutenant

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    Looking back, I realized that quite a few games have been criticized for their lack of victory conditions.


    For PSS, what kind of victory conditions do we want?

    1. Military Force: The obvious one of course is to destroy all enemies. That is pretty much standard everywhere.
    2. Technology Victory: Research some super-technology. This is known by other names like Ascension Victory in Alpha Centauri, but it basically is at the end of the tech-tree.
    3. Wonder Victory: Build a certain super structure. You could consider this a variant of the technology victory, but to build a certain wonder (or series of structures) and then win. A variant of this is to build a super-project (Ex: on Civ 4, a ship to Alpha Centuari).
    4. Capture Territory Victory: Basically hold a certain territory for x number of turns. A variant of this is the victory condition in GalCiv 2 and GalCiv 3, where the player must hold a certain number of crystals and build a station, defending it from attack to get points. Another is to hold a certain key planet.
    5. Destroy a super-enemy and complete a quest: There is a quest typically with a super villain at the end. Destroying it wins the game (Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes is a good example of this).
    6. Cultural Victory: Hold a certain amount of territory on the map or build a certain number of cultural points.
    7. Diplomatic Victory: Become allies with everyone.
    8. Turn Victory: Some games have a turn limit and then award the win to the player that has the highest points at the end of the turn. The maximum turns should be set by the player and larger maps should be able to have more turns (allowing for the fact that expansions take longer).

    What other victory conditions stand out to you? Why? What would you like to see in PSS?

    I think that in order for this to work out, there should be the option to turn victory conditions on and off. Where off, there should be incentives to move up the Tech Tree (Ex: in Gal Civ 3, there is a super ship component called "The Bane" which exists on the technology right before the ultimate so that even when the victory condition itself is off, there is some incentive to research it).

    In order for this to work:
    • All players must have a realistic shot at victory.
    • The AI must attempt to achieve these goals.
    • The AI must attempt to stop the player at all goals, not just conquest (ex: if there is a wonder victory, the AI must specifically concentrate fire at the wonder to prevent the end player from winning)
     
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  2. Tynendir

    Tynendir Cadet

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    You also have the KIng of the Hill type of victory where an empire has to hold on a particular planet for X turns before being declared the victor.

    Personally I don't really care about the victory conditions. To me the destination is not important, the journey is. As such I think the more victory conditions the better but also allow for the option to deactivate the options that one may not wish to pursue. Also allow for a Continue button if one wishes to play after having achieved victory or defeat.
    I do agree though that the AI need to be aware of the win conditions and fights teeth and nails to prevent anyone but themselves from reaching victory.
     
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  3. Konstantine

    Konstantine Grand Admiral

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    I am with you on this, sometimes it seems that victory conditions are too contrived, as if their sole purpose is to give the player a confirmation of the obvious.
    In light of the journey being more fun than the destination (the thrill of the chase), I also agree and would love an option to play without pre-set victory conditions.
     
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  4. CrazyElf

    CrazyElf Lieutenant

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    I consider King of the Hill to be Capture Territory. It's basically take something and hold for x turns.

    All victory conditions should be able to be turned off/on, except conquest.
     
  5. Edward the Hun

    Edward the Hun Moderator Lieutenant

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    There is a variation on diplomatic victory, the win the vote diplomatic victory. You see it in the older and new MOO. Horizon had it too. It's a bit like the culture and control territory conditions since your vote tally is proportional to your empire's size (usually pop based) except you can get the votes of allies or gain the votes of others via diplomacy.

    This is different from the one you described since you don't need to be allied with everyone, and you can get the tally by yourself as well. I like this variation because you can get that goal however you want, tech up and raise you pop cap per planet, capture or colonies more worlds via conquest or colonizing extreme worlds (a more none military tech approach), or get smaller empires to vote for you thus getting their tally via diplomacy.

    Another variation here from is having the votes be static, but then you need an entire system build around this mechanic to support a means to get those votes like Civilization V did with the City-States. The other version doesn't need the addition of more mechanics and as I said it can be achieved via normal tactics you would do otherwise in the game (expand, exploit, and exterminate). The Civ V one is more of an economic victory really since spending money is how you get that support usually.

    Another variation is on the military conquest, here you only need to control every capital, or in this case homeworlds. This helps remove the grind of needing to conquer every planet (though some games get around this by having an unconditional surrender option).
     
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  6. CrazyElf

    CrazyElf Lieutenant

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    I'm thinking that preventing grind is very important in the larger maps.

    The vote for a supreme leader though is very interesting and well worth consideration.



    I suppose there is one other type of victory that has not been discussed. The superweapon victory. You build x number of superweapons or super powerful units/ships and then you win.
     

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