Here is my state of the IS:G economy report as of PA 11 Hotfix 1. This data is taken from my Moltar playthrough which is publicly available for viewing in my Let's Play series. Please feel free to provide any feedback you have regarding it. I hope you find it helpful. ECONOMY BALANCE AND... BUGS? For context of discussion - here is my empire treasury on turn 152, around the mid-game and turning point of my campaign. I have 4 colonies, 28 total population I have 2 boson stars, 2 neutron stars, and 3 black holes generating tourism as follows: Boson Star 1 === 0.9 BC per pop Boson Star 2 === 0.9 BC per pop NeutronStr 1 === 0.15 BC per pop Black Hole 1 === 0.1 BC per pop Black Hole 2 === 0.05 BC per pop No tourism income from other 2 strategic sources. I have 1 planet special, Natural Wonders, providing 20 BC in interstellar tourism. I have 8 total strategic resource sources (5 dark matter, 1 neutronium, 2 antimatter, 0 helium-3) I have the Space Socialites space culture (+100% BC from tourism) I have 1 leader with the Basic level Trader secondary skill (5% bonus to trade treaties) I have 1 leader with the Expert level Smuggler secondary skill (+10 BC flat per strategic resource) Trade Treaties Are providing 261.5 on their own. This is with no special research, bonuses, or other enhancements such as the Trade Federation space culture choice. Literally all I had to do is ask the Draguul if they'd agree to one and withstand a few turns of negative income. A very small price to pay for my largest income source. This source does not need to be defended or protected in any way either. Only real downside is becoming too reliant on this income should they choose to end the treaty. Leader bonus of 13.1 is from the basic level of the skill. It is not unreasonable in this context. My feeling is trade treaties are too strong for the risk/reward involved in establishing them compared to other income sources. Interstellar Tourism - The Math: 20 BC (40 BC with Space Socialites space culture) is provided from the Natural Wonders planet special. How is each special resource contributing to my empire based on BC per pop in tourism? 0.9 BC * 28 pops = 25.2 BC With Space Socialites = 25.2 BC * 2 = 50.4 BC per turn 50.4 * 2 systems = 100.8 BC per turn 0.15 BC * 28 pops = 4.2 BC With Space Socialites = 4.2 BC * 2 = 8.4 BC per turn 0.1 BC * 28 pops = 2.8 BC With Space Socialites = 2.8 BC * 2 = 5.6 BC per turn 0.05 BC * 28 pops = 1.4 BC With Space Socialites = 1.4 BC * 2 = 2.8 BC per turn Add all this together and we get (correctly): 40 + 100.8 + 8.4 + 5.6 + 2.8 = 117.6 What does the math tell us? 0.05 BC for a source is too low to make any difference. Even in a huge empire, or with many allies, its benefit is so small it is easily ignored. I would recommend that no source of tourism provide less than 0.1 BC per pop. Boson stars, at 0.9 BC per pop are 18 times more valuable as an income generator then a 0.05BC source. I don't think they provide too much income or are overpowered, but they are clearly what you want if you want tourism income. I would love to see a leader secondary skill that had something to do with being a tour guide (Star Guide) to further increase tourism income. This would be similar to the trader secondary skill. I do not feel tourism is overpowered at this point. It doesn't feel underpowered either. I really like it as an alternate income source, but I wish you could focus on it more if you choose to. Smuggling An expert smuggler generating 80 BC for 8 strategic resources feels balanced to me. These are meant to be rare resources that people fight over. They also have to be defended, unlike a trade treaty which just exists. I am happy with the state of smuggling. Tax Income I have not thoroughly analyzed it, but it seems to be in a good place. I did not heavily invest in taxes and there are lot of ways to adjust it (taxing production, economic capital, leader administration skill, galactic amusement park, customs dock, etc.) END OF ANALYSIS END OF GAME INCOME Just for comparison, here is my income at the very end of the game. The humans only have 1 colony and I own mostly everything else on the map. Of course at this point in the game, income and where it comes from is far less important.
Thanks for your assessment on trade treaties, tourism, smuggling, taxes and the economy in general. This helps a lot. We'll give trade treaties a hard look. Their effects are powerful by design. Ideally, you must think carefully when you break one as that may have profound consequences on the diplomatic state of the game, as for your economy. I agree that it can become too much of a good thing, especially in late game with several trade treaties going on. As for "This source [Trade Treaties] does not need to be defended or protected in any way either", I'd just say that you should nurture your diplomatic situation with your partners or risk they breaking a treaty on you, especially critical in times of war where resources may be scarce. However, this may not be coming across as vital maybe because the AI is not as challenging as it will be at release. I expect things to become a bit more intense diplomatically speaking going forward. That said, we will think about this carefuly. I think trade treaties are doing their job fine in the early game, and maybe in mid-game as well. They are providing too much money late game, so a cap of some sort may be a partial solution to this. Let me know of any other thoughts you may have on this. Thanks!
Yes this sums it up well, a cap may be a natural fit, consider the running costs of maintaining such a treaty as escalating to a point where additional returns are affected. Perhaps even a soft cap, where after a pre determined threshold, only small increases to the revenue generated is allowed, Two behemoth empires with a treaty would then generate only a little more revenue than two mid-sized ones. I'm sure you can find the right balance here without re-inventing the wheel.
Thanks for continuing the discussion regarding Trade Treaties. I also really like the concept of interstellar tourism. Similar to the "Space Culture" concept, it feeds into the idea that your empire isn't just about war and taxes (well, unless you are Draguul, or @Konstantine). Please also consider increasing the negligible 0.05 BC tourism from some Black Holes. Also, a leader secondary skill, perhaps as a "travel guide", which promotes visiting tourist destinations and increases their income, would be a neat addition. Again, it would be similar to how trader boosts trade treaty income. It could be empire wide or just affect their local colony. That may be the case. At this point, maintaining the treaty amounted to not declaring war on them. I just signed it and went about my business. My example was only with 1 trade treaty by the way. Had I signed several, I could have really accumulated a lot of income. I am okay with a slow and steady approach to balancing this issue. As @Konstantine also stated, a cap per trade treaty might be a good start. Another thing to consider is how quickly the income increases over time. If that pacing is slowed it might make the income gained feel more like it was earned.
We've got you covered. I really liked your ideas to improve the Tourism side of the game. I'm positive we'll be incorporating your suggestions soon. We'll keep assessing this carefuly. I too think they are overpowered at the moment. A hard or soft cap could work well.
Hey, hey, I'm into tourism... you can visit my POW camps, and famous battle sites any time you wish... free of charge, I can't help it if I actually understood Palpatine's point of view All kidding aside, Yes I like to fight it out, but once other viable options and paths to victory become available, I won't mind seeking those out as well. Right now on the harder levels, it seems like there is little choice, If I sit back and wait, the Sulak will most likely outbreed me to victory. I also see that left unchecked, the AIs get very potent in the later stages, too many times I've waited too long, and when the fighting started I was up against battleships and Titans that were killing my ships with a single shot. I could customize a charismatic race and take all the options that would allow me to charm my way to victory... but... oh heck, that just isn't me. There will be peace and order in the galaxy! even if I have to kill everyone in it!
I am with you as I prefer to be the only one standing. Made me think of an Arlo Guthrie song Alice's Restaurant. He talks about the group W bench and the guy next to him kept saying killl kill kill. Arlo was arrested for dumping trash.
