What about System Defense Ships?

I was an early advocate for something like this... but the game was different at that time.
Back then, the game was far more tilted towards the offense and SSPs were extremely hard to come by.
Now, the game has a better balance between offense and defense and SSPs are far easier to generate. I'm not sure these type of ships are needed now and they would tilt things more towards defense, perhaps making the game feel like a grind if they're deployed heavily by all parties.
For me then, I don't see much to be gained by this... and it could un-balance things. Normal ships are adequate enough, especially lighter classes, plus they have the advantage of strategic mobility, meaning you can withdraw them if you have to, or deploy them where needed.
I would hold off on this.

 

This I agree with, MoO2 had colony ships for colonizing different systems, and colony bases for colonizing a planet in the same system, the later could not travel and were less expensive to build. The ISG devs may have done this on purpose though, to keep a tighter control and balance over growth.

Hmm, my friend, you can easily fight till the death in a system if you desire, create a garrison fleet and leave it there. For example, such a fleet (and the ships in it) would be geared towards weaponry, no need for Bombs or other frills. They can get a boost from defensive structures in the colony as well. My style though doesn't allow for fighting to the death. If a fight is clearly lost, I will try and withdraw what forces I can, hopefully to regroup and counter-attack, rather than pull a last stand.
In the early game, when ships take a considerable while to build, I find it more beneficial to retreat but preserve my forces rather than risking a collapse over a single battle gone bad.
I will also point out another drawback to non-mobile ships. Your front (border) will change throughout the game, especially when you start playing larger maps. Over time then, you will have assets basically doing nothing as they are far from the front and garrisoning systems that are not under threat. Shame to scrap them, equal shame to leave them intact as they drain SSPs.

You know I respect your opinion, but I really feel as the goal you desire can be accomplished with the ships on hand, and you can re-deploy as needed, refit easily etc. I just don't see the gains of including non-mobile warships at this time and do see a few possible negatives.

If you play Hearts of Iron at all, think of garrison divisions, I wont use them except in situations where their defeat would mean a loss of the division anyway.

 

That goes without saying my friend, each one of us has different tastes.

You are correct, when you are defeated however, your unit is not destroyed unless it has no-where to retreat to or... it's a garrison division, a non mobile unit.

Oooh, some cool ideas there that happen to fit in with my own personal tastes, maybe we can see something along these lines in the future.

 

In a sense it already is. You have orbital bases, planetary installations and ground forces ranging from Militia as default, upwards to elite units depending on if you have facilities in the colony and what type. I think these play the role of Garrison divisions quite well, though they go by a different name. Perhaps you mean something more dedicated that could be deployed at a colony of your choice?

Same here my friend.

 

Intriguing concept with this, particularly about un-colonized worlds, (both owned and un-claimed)
I need to contemplate this some more.

Here I see the logic, by staying in-active, the forces can be considered to be changing posture from hasty defense to one of deliberate defense instead. This could give a slight defensive bonus. Movement then, would negate the posture and bonus... interesting.

 

Vielen Dank für Deinen Hinweis ich habe nicht mitbekommen das der Google Übersetzer mich im Stich gelassen hat. Ich entschuldige mich und werde versuchen am Montag den Artikel noch einmal neu zu schreiben ich hoffe er wird dann lesbar sein .

 

Sehr geehrte Diskussionsrunde !

Leider ist mein erster Anlauf diesen Artikel zu schreiben völlig daneben gegangen.

Mit großem Interesse habe ich ihre Diskussion verfolgt.

Meine Auffassung ist das eine solche Systemverteidigungsflotte eine Art Grenzpolizei ( eine Mischung aus Zoll , Einwanderungsbehörde und Polizei) sein könnte. In Friedenszeiten ließe sich das Sternensystem überwachen, um der Entstehung von Piratennestern und unerwünschten kriminellen Netzwerken vorzubeugen oder den Ort ihrer Entstehung zu steuern ( die Flotte fliegt regelmäßig Patrouille, außer zu diesem Planeten).

Wenn das System von einem Feind eingenommen wird, sitzt unsere Wachflotte auf Grund des fehlenden Hypersprungantriebes in der Falle. Trotzdem gibt es einige Möglichkeiten was die Reste der verbliebenen Flotte machen könnte. Wenn das neue Herrschersystem eine Generalamnestie erlässt und der Bevölkerung entgegenkommt wäre die Flotte möglicherweise bereit sich zu ergeben und die Seite zu wechseln. Kritischer sehe ich da schon die Option mit den Piraten. Warum sollten Leute die ein Leben lang Verbrecher gejagt haben plötzlich selber zu welchen werden?

Wahrscheinlicher wäre hier die Bildung einer Rebellen- oder Partisaneneinheit diese besitzen immerhin eine militärische Struktur und eine Ehre. Natürlich braucht so ein Verband einen Stützpunkt- aber eine Garnison ehrlich ? Wo würde denn der Gegner zuerst suchen – genau dort(!) und wie hoch wären die Überlebenschancen 1-2 Züge wahrscheinlich. Ein in früheren Beiträgen beschriebener und noch nicht entdeckter Geheimstützpunkt könnte hier auf Grund seiner hervorragenden Tarnung könnte hier eine Lösung darstellen. In den Anweisungen für einen solchen Notfall, könnte dem Kommandanten die Lage des Geheimstützpunktes und der Zugangsschlüssel enthüllt werden oder man schickt einen Spion der einen solchen, für die angehende Rebellenflotte öffnet.Jetzt könnt Ihr mit Euren oben beschriebenen Aktionen loslegen. Allerdings je öfter ihr in Erscheinung( Erfolg oder Misserfolg) tretet um so höher die Chance entdeckt zu werden . Denn durch gewisse mathematische Analyseprogramme wird man den Standort dann irgendwann eingrenzen und isolieren können. Besser wäre es mit Aktionen bis kurz vor einen Gegenangriff zu warten und dann gezielt wichtige Systeme zu schwächen oder zu zu zerstören. Wird man entdeckt könnte ein Spion noch ein Zeitfenster, zur Evakuierung und Wiederversiegelung oder zur Selbstzerstörung des Stützpunktes,zur Verfügung stellen, vorausgesetzt man hat ein getarntes Trägerschiff mit Hypersprungantrieb (leer) für Kampfgleiter und und Personal in die Nähe gebracht.

Mit ihrem Einverständnis werde ich den Alten Artikel demnächst löschen. Ich hoffe es ist alles gut lesbar.

 

There have been other examples of ships with no FTL capabilities in other games - or are reliant on something else (like a mothership that acts like a carrier) for system defense ships.

An example may be the Liir-Zuul alliance in SOTS2.

Carriers are widely use throughout many games. The interesting question, as others have noted is balance. I would like to see a faction that specializes in defense and in return, has weak offense. Most races however would be balanced between defense and offense.

 

The idea of factions has merit and could be a great candidate for some future expansions. The thing for me is balance, if extra goodies are given to the defence, then there must be a fun quick way to aid the offense.

Take the example offered by @rxnnxs as regards digging in. Here, units that stayed stationary for a number of turns would gain a defensive bonus, the difference between hasty and deliberate defence. Well if this was present, would it not make sense to allow a player to set their offensive posture also? For example, for a monetary cost, ships could be set to deliberate offense and gain a small attack bonus for the turn.

Simplicity and balance is key. Non FTL ships are tricky, their cost and build time should be less, so they could be built quickly, but SSP maintenance could be the same, otherwise I fear that it would be difficult to assemble enough ships to overcome them. ISG is not about thousands or hundreds of ships, but rather dozens, as such, having non FTL ships could cause some unwanted consequences if careful attention isn't paid.