[Beta] Fighter Bugs and Initial Feedback

1. The combat log is no longer accurate for fighters.

Shown here is a battle (Savename: Fighter Log) in which my fighters are clearly doing far more damage to the ship then shown in the log. The log should ideally display accurate info so I can determine if the damage being done is correct and judge the balance.

Just load the save, click end turn, and you can fight the battle.

Weapons used are phasors.
Rak-kak has Expert Squadron Commander (+75% damage to fighter damage)

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2. Hidden Window behind fighter window

What is this window behind the one shown? Is that where info about the weapons the fighters/bombers are using is displayed?​

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3. Balance issue found while testing - Possible to find tech that is very powerful from space monsters

This isn't directly fighter related, but occurred while I was performing tests with the attached battle.
In the combat attached, I was able to capture gauss-coil gun technology for free from defeating the space amoeba. That is three levels above my current weapons tech level. That is too powerful a find and too big of a luck swing.

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Saving the best/longest comments for last...

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4. Phasors are way too powerful on fighters.

At tech level V, Phasors can be unlocked.

• Normally they can't have armor piercing until you've reached tech level VI
• Normally they can't have shield piercing until you've reached tech level VII.

Fighters get phasors, with armor piercing, shield piercing, AND the stun chance at tech level V.


EXPERIMENTS/EVIDENCE:

TEST #1 PHASORS

• Load save (Savename: Fighter Starbase). No Squadron Commander buffs.
  
• Press End Turn
  
• Attack SOL I
• Send in one set of fighters and press end turn a few times
• The fighters can kill the star base in 2 salvos by bypassing shields AND armor.

TEST #2 WURTZITE CANNONS

• Load save (Savename: Fighter Starbase). No Squadron Commander buffs.
  
• Use Collective Transcendence to immediately finish Wurtzite Cannon research.
• Press End Turn
  
• Attack SOL I
• Send in one set of fighters and press end turn a few times.
• The fighters MIGHT destroy the starbase in 4 volleys before returning, but sometimes fail to do so and have to return to refuel/rearm.

TEST #3 WURTZITE CANNONS + RAK-KAX

• Load save (Savename: Fighter Starbase Rak-kax). Expert Squadron Commander buffs.
  
• Use Collective Transcendence to immediately finish Wurtzite Cannon research.
• Press End Turn
  
• Attack SOL I
• Send in one set fighters and press end turn a few times.
• The fighters will destroy the starbase in 3 to 4 volleys. The extra damage is hard to calculate. Is it because the cannons are doing more, or just because their attack value is higher a leader is present?

OVERALL COMMENTS ON THIS ISSUE:
Researching Wurtzite Cannon, a level VI tech, is a significant downgrade for fighters from the level V tech Phasors. The armor piercing is nice, but not nearly as nice as shield piercing + armor piercing + stun + high accuracy phasors.

I would recommend Phasors revert back and lose their PD modification so they can't be used by fighters. Phasors are too good, at least when you don't have to worry about space or cost to add all the good modifiers on-top of the stun. They are probably the most versatile weapons in the game.

Wurtzite Cannons feel better with the armor piercing boost. More testing is required, but they seem usable. I can't tell of expert squadron commander damage buff is working or not. They may have just been more accurate with a leader around.

Also, the starbase has Chaos Chain. I know this has been brought up already. It has no PD to defend itself, so it is very easy pickings. Now, it is a weak tech level 2 base, and perhaps fighters with much higher tech, level VI Wurtzite cannons, should handle it easily, but the fact that it can't shoot back at them or the carrier might be an issue.

Gauss-Coil Guns are much higher tech and still don't have the overpowered shield piercing + armor piercing + stun combo of Phasors. I like that they are a PD option now, and think they will be a nice upgrade for fighters at tech level VIII. Wurtzite Cannons as the top level weapon for fighters limited their growth potential as part of the arsenal. Gauss-Coil Guns swap the armor piercing of Wurtzite for shield piercing and gain more damage and accuracy.

I have only used Gauss-Coil fighters briefly, but they seem to be more in-line balance wise than the Phasors are relative to their tech level. Shield piercing also means they are guaranteed to make some sort of impact, even against high level targets with heavy shielding.

Size or building cost of fighter bays may need to go up. More testing is required. If they feel slightly too powerful, I'd rather see their cost go up than to nerf them down to negligible status again. Ample PD defense and flak guns should make quick work of them unless maybe an expert squad commander is in charge.​

 

I am trying to fix issues with as few changes as possible pre-release. In this case, I am providing info on some bugs and also feedback on the fighter changes already in the game. The changes overall are good, but phasors are broken (on fighters).

I too would to like to have more fighters on a carrier some day, but they also need to gain higher level tech so they aren't using woefully out of date weaponry compared to the rest of your fleet. This step is where we are at right now. The damage output is increased because of the tech change and some bugs being fixed in the last release. Also, you aren't stuck shooting recharging shields endlessly now.

The game can be rebalanced if/when more carrier options are introduced in the future. For instance, by giving fighters a specialized version of the weapon tech that does -70% damage instead of using PD modifier at -50%. Now you can have 4 fighters doing less damage, 6 fighters doing similar damage to today, and 8 doing more than they do today. In this regard these changes aren't taking away the opportunity to make these changes in the future.

 

Yes, it would help lower the initial impact of Phasors for sure, but...

I do wonder if it would then be best as a player to move up the tree without getting Wurtzite Cannons in that case. I think Phasors still outstrip Wurtzite Cannons in damage once they get shield and armor piercing. You also still have the stun chance being applied multiplied by each fighter attacking.

I suppose it could be considered a choice you make. Wurtzite Cannons may be better against high hull strength ships later in the game. Early on though, all the ships have low hull strength and can be quickly killed with modded phasors. Not sure if the AI uses the optional buffs to hull strength on their later designs.

Phasors may even beat out Gauss Coil-Gun (with shield piercing) in raw damage/killing capacity against low hull/system strength targets. Bypassing two very potent forms of defense (as Phasors do) at once is very powerful as shown in my saves.

 

So in that scenario, phasors would have shield piercing only, wurtzite would have armor piercing, and gauss-coil would have shield piercing. That seems reasonable.

The only issue is how will players know their phasors only get the shield piercing mod from regular phasors? The player gets limited info about their fighter load out in game, which goes back to a couple of items in my OP about the log and info panel for them.

 

Wurtzite Cannons may indeed be underpowered all around. The double accuracy penalty hurts them badly, and I don't know what benefit they have to warrant that.

Contrast their penalties to the penalities Phasors have. How are they worse than Wurtzite Cannons, a higher level kinetic tech? How are they better?

Max damage is important, but so is average damage. Phasors may still have higher average damage because they aren't likely to miss. Plus no shields to worry about, and the stun chance.

 

@Adam Solo - I am unclear on which weapon fighters get if both Disruptor Beam and Gauss-Coil gun are researched as both are the same tier of weapon. Is it just the most recently researched one? I researched Disruptor after having Gauss-Coil and it switched me to Disruptor Beam.

1. Here is my breakdown/view on the weapons, mostly from a fighter perspective, but overall as well.
   
2. I am also including some proposed number tweaks, but no new mechanics to implement.
   
3. Worth noting that Squadron Commander can impact damage by up to +75% on fighters and bombers.
4. Fighter Bay sizes may need base cost/size increased slightly to account for stronger fighters.
5. If additional fighters are added down the road, say 6 or 8 to a wing, one possibility is to add a "Fighter Sized" (working title) modifier that provides -70% base weapon damage instead of -50% damage. We change fighters to require "Fighter Sized" versions of weapons (Wurtzite, Phasors, etc.) instead of PD weapons. The additional damage reduction balances as 4 fighters (less damage), 6 (similar damage), 8 (more damage).

Wurtzite Cannon -
Is a specialized close-range weapon that isn't very special, potent, or scary.
Is not a straight upgrade from the Railgun one level below it which serves a different role.
Currently can do less damage than the lower tech Railgun or Phasors due to accuracy and mod availability.

Conclusion
When used by ships or fighters, using these should require you to stack ship attack buffs and find a way to get in close (before being destroyed) to make them worthwhile. Defending commanders should fear such ships closing in with them and equip approprite measures to counter ships and fighters using these short range weapons.

1. Increase damage from 25 to 35 (40%). You can try 30, but I think that's still too weak.
2. Increase space/cost to reflect this conventional "hardest metal available", which could be heavy/rare.
3. Delay armor piercing ability until weapon would normally have it.

Fighter specific info:
Max damage for fighters increases from 48 to 68. Average damage is certain to be less due to accuracy unless ship is well designed for it.


Phasors -
Is the most versatile weapon in the game mod-wise.
Only weapon capable of bypassing shields and armor at the same time.
Has a stun ability.

Conclusion
Hopefully these may become less "must have" once the Wurtzite Cannon has a role. I like that they are versatile and want to avoid changing that. Currently armor + shield piercing is too strong against low hull/structure found on lower tier armors.

1. Delay armor and shield piercing abilities until weapon would normally have it.
2. Ensure AI uses hull reinforcement more often in their designs to counter modded dual pierce phasors strategies.

Fighter specific info:
Max damage for fighters is 40. This will often be the average damage as well. Chance to stun and dual pierce.


Disruptor Beam -
Similar to Wurtzite Cannon, but more accurate because they are beams.
High raw damage potential.
No piercing modifiers.

Conclusion
60 damage is quite a bit higher than 35 (proposed) of Wurtzite, but they lack any piercing. A good well rounded weapon.

1. No changes recommended at this time.

Fighter specific info:
Max damage is 120. Average damage may be somewhat less due to accuracy. No piercing, but 120 per volley is decent.


Gauss-Coil Gun -
Exceptional accuracy at range for a kinetic.
Solid damage
Can provide shield piercing.

Conclusion
Exceptional accuracy make these a well rounded weapon. Gauss-Coil Gun changes things up with shield piercing instead of armor piercing.

1. Delay shield piercing modifier until weapon would normally have it (rank 9).

Fighter specific info:
Max damage is 100. Average damage is likely to be 100 due to accuracy bonuses. Shield piercing helps make that damage count.

 

Thanks for all the comments. I think we are going to be in a good place with the changes. If our concern becomes fighters being too strong afterward, we can always adjust. Ideally the AI and players will learn to counter fighters once they start taking heavy damage from them to mitigate their effectiveness.

With this change, I believe Wurtzite Cannon will now also be the only mid-high level armor piercing weapon for fighters? They should be a more appealing option for them now between the damage increase and unique armor piercing heavy metal shells.