Hello everyone! We are proud to announce that Pre-Alpha 11 Unstable is now available for download to everyone who pre-ordered the game. This is a huge update that brings the game to an almost feature-complete state. So, welcome to an almost completely new game experience! Among all that was added and improved we highlight the overhaul of the starmap and system view, the addition of race customization, espionage, events, random tech trees, a new playable race (the Sulak) and a completely new soundtrack produced by Grant Kirkhope and Ryan McQuinn! There's also 12 new leaders, new and improved ship 3D models and new race looks and animations, among many other things as you can see in the release note below. Please let us know your thoughts on this release as for your criticisms and suggestions for improvement. Note: Save games from Pre-Alpha 10 are not compatible with this new version. Thanks! Adam Solo & MalRey Praxis Games Interstellar Space: Genesis is a new turn-based space 4X strategy game currently under development by Praxis Games. The game is currently at Pre-Alpha and pre-orders with instant access are open! Feel welcome to open threads and discuss any topic you’d like in the game forums. We’re making the most complete and comprehensive Turn Based Space 4X ever developed, and we count with your support to make it happen! So, please tell your friends about ISG, people who loved Master of Orion but also space 4X games or strategy games in general. Pre-order and play ISG today, and soon you will Discover the Unknown. Thanks! NEW Race customization added! - You can design your own race with the abilities of your choosing! Espionage mechanic added! - Send your leaders in espionage missions. Steal tech, bribe other leaders, conduct sabotage and gather intel on your rivals. Events system added: The game now features colonization events, galactic events and exploration events! New playable race added - Meet the Sulak, the inhabitants of acid worlds! Race modifiers and special abilities: Each race now comes with its own set of modifiers and special abilities, including their own government. Race unique abilities: Among race modifiers and special abilities, each race has two unique abilities, which are like special powers the player can use during the game from time to time, when the necessary conditions are met. Starmap revamp!: New 3D objects added for all starmap objects; zoom and pan features added; old nebula graphics replaced with new procedural nebulas. System view revamp!: Previous "list-view" format replaced with an orbital view to show all the system objects (planets, gas giants, asteroid belts and accretion disks around black holes, neutron stars and exotic stars). Random tech trees option added! - When activated this setting generates differently arranged tech trees, that are different for the different players of a game. 9 powerful unique starships can now be found during ruins searching! POP assimilation mechanic added: Some races assimilate POPs faster upon invasion; POPs don't like to be conquered, so watch out for revolts! Hurry construction feature added: You can now hurry up construction with cash. New buildings: Space Elevator, Colonial Counterintelligence Agency, Intelligence Headquarters, Imperial Archive, Imperial Resort. New wonders: Galactic Navigation Archive, Galactic Space Port, Galactic Industrial Conglomerate, Galactic Knowledge Exchange, Galactic Relic Collection, Galactic Surveillance Network. New techs: Hover Tanks (bonus to ground combat), Titan Construction (allows building Titan-class starships), Autonomous Land Processing Unit (bonus to planetary engineering and infrastructure development speed); Leaders opinion/intrigue mechanic added: Your leaders now have an opinion on you, which will reflect how much they like you, your empire and even some of the other leaders; higher opinion leaders gain more experience, while lower opinion leaders may underperform on their actions, so watch them closely. New leader desires/ambitions added: I wish "Shore Leave", "Get a Raise", "Dismiss Leader", "Colonize Planet", "Request Defense" and "Threat to Leave". New leader traits: Greedy (asks for raises and for more money), Philanthropic (less raise demands for less money), Envious (intrigue with other leaders), Xenophobic (only works for some races), Observant (better results from ruins exploration) and Fickle (loses opinion faster). New leader skills: Activist, Engineer, Medicine, Planetologist, Astrobiologist, Astronautics, Astroengineering, Weapons Specialist, Defense Technologies, Economics Specialist, Infrastructure Planner. 12 new leaders added! Galactic Senate Victory condition added! - Gather two-thirds of the votes and win! New weapon modifications: - Continuous (increases accuracy); Shield Piercing (allows bypassing shields completely); No Range Dissipation (no damage penalties from range for the weapon); Fast (higher missile speed); Heavily Armored (harder to hit missiles); MIRV (each missile contains 4 separate full-strength warheads); Spinal Mount (only allowed for certain Titan ships - allows equipping super-sized mounts for weapons). New Point Defense option allows PD weapons to fire at any passing targetable object, like missiles and fighters (which may or may not be attacking the ship that fires the PD weapons), Game resolution and quality settings can now be set in-game via the Game Settings menu. New star parsec distance measuring tool added. Cooperation in diplomacy new options "I request that you...": - "Declare War On..."; "Make Peace With..."; "Break Treaties With...". New art for all the races replaced the previous placeholder art, and there's animations too! Ship models complete rework for all races: new textures and new ship model set for the new Sulak race. Strategic resources related techs implementation done: Antimatter Warheads (bonus to missile damage); Neutronium Armor Coating (bonus to armor); Neutronium Shells (bonus to kinetics weapons); Enhanced Shields (bonus to shields); Beam Accelerators (bonus to beam weapons. BALANCE Trade Goods was too good: Trade Goods now convert 10% of production to BC instead of previous 25%. Production taxes tone down: Production taxes now convert in the proportion of 1BC per 3 production points taxed instead of previous 1BC per 2 production points. Treasury allocation to research was too powerful: Money to research points conversion changed from 1BC to 1RP conversion to 2BC to 1RP Stellar Navigators now reduce nebula travel speed to 2 parsecs per turn instead of previous 1. GAMEPLAY Offworld Support tech now provides a free Support Ship upon tech breakthrough. Ship design limit changed from 5 to 12 (possibly unlimited at release). Techs of the same field and level now cost more research points every time a tech in the same field and level is researched. Lone wolf leader trait revised: now provides combat penalties per additional leader present in the fleet instead of number of ships; Trusting leader trait revised according to the new opinion and intrigue system. Maximum number of leader skills is now 5 (previously was 8). Rival factions now conduct diplomacy according to their attitude towards the other races: Diplomacy modifiers added (example: "You declared war on us!", among many others). AI rivals keep memory of events and react according to the current state of affairs. Titan construction now requires a tech. AI AI now defends better: The AIs now have "situational awareness" for all nearby threats. They employ reactive defense maneuvers against forces perceived as a threat. AI trade proposal spam fixed: The AIs now propose deals more sensibly. AI now searches ruins. AI now more likely to attack if the opportunity arises. Previously, the AI was a bit too cautious and passive. AI now equips their ships' weapons with modifications. AI now uses energy overload actions during combat. UI New Empire Overview screen added: Allows tracking all the important aspects about your empire at a glance! New Rival Empire Status Overview screen added: Shows information about all the factions you've made contact with. Ship support points now shown in yellow and in red when bellow -5 or -10 respectively. Tweaked the "New Turn" panel stripe, that presents the stardate and informs a new turn has started to stay visible for a bit more time. Colony view improvements: Now the buildings are shown in the colony (and can be scrapped); the terrain quality has improved significantly (and will improve further for the next releases). AUDIO Complete replacement of the soundtrack with the new musics composed by Grant Kirkhope and Ryan McQuinn! BUGS Fixed an issue where the game was causing a freeze when generating terrains in particular cases. Fixed an issue where the leader skill icons would not fit the leader card panel when they were more than 4. Ship support bonus is now reflected in the game difficulty level tooltip at game setup. Fixed an issue where the race description text position did not reset to the top after scrolling the description of another race. Fixed a bug where the ships' armor was being updated when entering space combat. Fixed an issue where Leaders were having desires fire up for colonies before they arrived there (still in the process of being assigned - travelling). Fixed an issue that was causing tooltips to fly when doing invasions Fixed a memory leak in the starmap that was causing large amounts of unnecessary memory to be used. Fixed a bug that was causing a freeze when occupying an outpost in a very special case. Fixed a bug where you couldn't proceed with the game when every tech was researched. Fixed an issue where special system components space and cost requirements were not scaling with ship class size. --- Instructions on how to download the latest build can be found here.
Thanks guys. Looks good; keep it up! My opinion only: Leader opinion/intrigue is NOT something I wanted to see. I much prefer simple leaders who add one or more advantages. I just don't want to manage the managers, too! Everything else looks great!
There is a strong emphasis on leaders in this game and this is just another one of the aspects surrounding it. Simple leaders who lack any personality or purpose for being in the game except to give +10% X and +10% Y are not what IS:G is aiming for.
Thanks for your preliminary thoughts! I undersand what you mean about the leaders. We think we may have struck a good balance between depth and not going overboard on the micro with the leaders system. They will ask things of you from time to time, so you have to entertain some of their requests. Some of them will give you a few dilemmas, but nothing too drastic. If you find the time please let us know what you think.
Going to have to test drive it tomorrow. Installed and ran the first turn to make sure it was working. Looks so much better, glad to see the progress.
What a nice surprise this morning! Number of new features is overwhelming! Can't wait to test them in game
Amazing growth to the game gents! This will require perhaps entirely new approaches and strategy... I'm thrilled to try this out!
Hello I try to find out how new map work but I can't pan. Only zoom work. I look options to find keys but that missing. Other ideas: Can you make Human solar system option: Sol yellow star and Mars, Jupiter etc there? Maybe a Milkway galaxy option good too. (Roleplayers will like it) - Design Screen: Make ships bigger I love to look my new toys. Better for immersion I think. Maybe just default zoom level and position need change a little or ui there. (New ship models look good so show them) Any chance to show new weapons, shields, armor etc. on ship model? - The solar system screen same, need option to zoom more in. I feel too far when look solar system want to look planets closer.
Hey szaki2, To pan the map around you hold the left mouse click on the map and drag the map around. We will ad keys to pan the starmap in the next version, ASWD keys. If you need further assistance let me know. Those are nice ideas, and you're right, it would help with roleplayers and immersion. We'll see what we can do about that. Yes, we should zoom in a bit more the ships in the design screen to show them a bit more. As for showing weapons, shields, armor etc attached to the 3D model, we thought at going that direction at first but decided to simplify for now. We could definitely do something, like showing shields and armor perhaps. As for the weapons and systems themselves that would be more tricky, but we'll see what we can do, for the release and beyond. I agree that it would be nice to be able to zoom in planets, asteroid belts and such and see activity there, in the system view. Some of that is planned, like seeing your survey ship wandering around, or freighters coming and going. We'll see what we can do here as well. Thanks a lot for your preliminary thoughts. We took note of all of your suggestions and is already in our TODO list for consideration. If you find the time let us know some more deep thoughts you have about the current release. Thanks!
Looking forward to jumping into this and getting a feel for things. As an aside - Adam and co., I'd like to suggest you give a listen and read to the following (if you haven't already): https://explorminate.net/2018/10/08/the-inglorious-state-of-4x-games-an-exposition/ https://explorminate.net/2018/10/29/strategic-expanse-34-strategic-warfare-part-2/ The article and podcast above both dig deep into the topic of endgame arc's and how it relates to victory conditions. I'm not sure what you have planned for the final game here, but I HIGHLY, HIGHLY, HIGHLY urge you to think creatively about how to add or work in an interesting victory trigger that goes beyond the typical conquest/council/econ/tech style victories we see. Even something akin to the seal's victory in Age of Wonders 3 (which is basically a multi-point "King of the Hill" scenario) does wonders (no pun intended) for orienting the game-play towards a more interesting objective and - crucially - cuts out the tedious mop-up portion of the late-game that plague most 4X games. I have high hopes for ISG, and as a traditional 4X game it's overall mechanics are very well thought out and do a great job creating interesting choices. If all of this fine work can be coupled with an overall structure to the gameplay that ties it all together in a compelling way, I think the game will go far. If it doesn't address these late-game concerns (and I'm not passing any judgement yet on how much of an issue it will be in ISG, since we're still talking alpha), then I think it's going to be an uphill battle to get the game to standout. I can only speak for myself and those I know more personally - but a lot of us are getting burned out on the traditional 4X gameplay arc. If there is anything that can be done to generate a different experience it will help your game stand out in the crowd. EDIT: I have a LOT of ideas on this front, so if you want me to brain dump here or via PM let me know - I'd be happy to share.
Thanks Adam (and aReclusiveMind). It's not a game breaker for me, just a matter of MY personal preferences. I was looking at it (kinda, sorta) from the point of view of Juvenal's Quis custodiet ipso custodes. You go, guys!
Thanks for the kind words Oliver. I'm very much looking forward for your thoughts on the new build! As for the end game arc and victory conditions topics, I did read your articles and I'm 30 minutes in the strategic expanse 34 podcast. Great show by the way guys, as always. It's great to have a go-to place for everything 4X gaming, and I think you're all doing a great job at it. As for the topics you raise, the end game's arc and victory conditions. In my opinion, the most satisfying victory conditions you can have in a game will depend on the story and game itself. Apart from that, you should stick with some variant of domination victory, and possibly a diplomatic victory of some sort, but not much else, if any victory condition at all. The number of victory conditions you have is not the issue, at least for me. I'm one of those who tick off all Civilization victory conditions apart from domination/conquest, and occasionally I would allow the diplomatic victory offered by the installment in question, and sometimes I would allow the space race one. I would say the space race is Civilizations' "story victory condition", or the game's thematic victory condition, if you will (then it ties in nicely with Alpha Centauri). Because, let's face it, full conquest or even total domination is not historical. The diplomatic victory condition also makes good sense in Civ's context. But apart from those, all other Civ victory conditions are and have been pretty bad, in my opinion. So, in my view it depends on what your playstyle is and what you want to get out of a 4X game. And it will depend on the 4X game in question. On ISG we offer a domination-variant victory condition. That's a standard and there's really nothing wrong with that. On top, we offer an election/diplomatic victory, which is a way the player can control a good "exit-point" from the game by playing a more defensive playstyle, if you will. Then, we will work on our story/thematic victory condition. MoO2 had the Antarans battle as their story/thematic victory condition, and there seems to be a general agreement that there was nothing really wrong with that, but the contrary. After all, the game was called Master of Orion 2: Battle at Antares !! The AI's couldn't use it. So, again it was another good game "exit-point" the player could control, and it felt satisfiying enough. This is not to say we will have an Antarans' direct equivalent victory condition in ISG. The idea is to offer a special thematic victory condition that makes sense in the lore and world in question. ISG has its own lore and story (hint: Genesis), something we've still not included much in the game, since we needed to get all the systems in first. But, we'll get there. Soon, we will start working towards having this special/thematic victory condition available for players, if not in this iteration then in the next. Then we have other plans for yet another victory condition that we are not prepared to disclose at this point because it's not fully fleshed out yet. But let's just say that again the players will have a good degree of control on another nice "exit-point" option they can use with this one. I think a 4X game must be enjoyable even if/when you're not working towards a specific victory condition. There must be enough in to allow for a good sandbox experience where emergent gameplay and stories/narratives can emerge. It's all about stories in the end, your stories. As Steve Barcia once said, and I agree, you know players are having fun when they start telling stories of particular situations that happened to them. Epic stories or little occurances, it doesn't matter, all counts. "Oh, there was this situation where they attacked me and I ....", "I have upgraded my fleet and this time I will have my revenge, can't wait to play this battle!". As soon as these stories happen, the player is transported to the game and the immersion and flow magic happens. That's the appeal, I think. So, 4X games are not just about winning. They are also, if not most about the ride itself. At some point, a game will end, usually when the player runs out of stories, because the playing field is too static and there's nothing else to explore, or when there is clearly someone, or a group of empires that have run away. I don't think there's really an issue with that. It just means that this time you didn't make it and this was the story of your people in this game. But, it's time for another run, for new stories and for another ride! "This time I will show them!". The challenge, having a big difficulty ladder with as many levels and as less AI bonuses the better, that's also part of the appeal. In conclusion, it should not be about the amount of victory conditions you offer but about having the ones that make the most sense for your game. 4X games are empire-builders at heart, so a domination-type victory is a staple of the genre. Diplomatic victory conditions also make sense traditionally since diplomacy is usually a big aspect of a 4X game. So, if diplomacy is big in your game, I guess you should offer some version of that. Apart from that you should look at your theme and story and try to offer something special with that, for a story-based special victory condition. This is where quest-based victory conditions, Antarans attack or what your story is about will come into play. Then, you should offer a good challenge and a good difficulty ladder. Apart from that, I think you should put as much energy into facilitating the emergence of stories in the game, either via events, quests, or simply by the intricacies of the game systems themselves. That's my take and contribution to the latest strategic expanse. I will finish hearing the podcast and I'm interested in debating these topics further as I think these are key points about improving 4X games going forward and I very much look forward to hear other's opinions on the matter. If you have lots of ideas feel free to share them where you find to be more appropriate, as I'm curious and interested in hearing them out. If you're going to share I think it would be neat if everyone could have access to it. So, a Victory Conditions and/or End Game threads running in the "General Discussion" subforum sounds like a good place for that.
As I said on your site itself, if you are getting tired of traditional 4x gameplay, then maybe go play something else? Rather than want traditional 4x games to change to whatever you want them to be. Meanwhile, for those of us that aren't, contrary to your assertion, there isn't a "crowd". We get maybe one traditional 4x game a year Sometimes different is better. Sometimes its not. Master of Orion 2 was vastly different than the original Master of Orion and for the better. But then Master of Orion III was radically different and for the worse, killing off the brand and maybe even the company. Meanwhile Civilization has not really changed much and is still a big deal to this day. Had Master of Orion 3 not been so different, we'd probably see Firaxis making Master of Orion games every year, all like Moo 2, rather than the IP left in the dirt for any random company to pick up. However, since Firaxis isn't, it's left to people like Adam Solo to pick up the torch. And they've done a fine job with it. ISG will likely never be a huge seller (like Civ) simply because it's from a small company, with little in way of press contacts with major sites, and it doesn't have the fancy graphics. It won't be because of jaded former 4x fans.
Haven't gotten too far into it yet, one session at about 140 turns, but I can see the point @Joe3 is trying to make. Managing their desires is kinda cool, a leader suddenly getting the envious trait (happened twice in this session so far), and asking me to dismiss another leader... not so cool. I said no, and it pissed off the leader enough where he became useless to me, so I dismissed him. Having already given said leader some love and nurturing, I wasn't too thrilled to see him go, it felt like wasted effort. Maybe a cap on how many times this can happen would be cool?
Thanks for your thoughts Adam. I just want to clarify a few things regarding my perspective: I'm not suggesting we double down on making improved victory systems at the expense of having engaging, deep gameplay throughout the game. Rather, I feel the greatest games do both. I'm also not advocating for MORE victory conditions in a given game. I'd be fine if a game only has one victory condition. What I AM advocating for is to have whatever the victory conditions are, whether there is just one or many, be designed thoughtfully and with an eye towards providing something new and interesting. I'm also of the opinion that victory conditions that connect to the game's narrative (not just the story but also the emergent narrative created through play - as you mention) are better and present a more satisfactory conclusion to the game, compared to the arbitrary ones typically employed (yay! you control 66.6% of the galaxy - you win!). Ultimately, a thematically-based victory question would answer this essential question: "why are we fighting to dominate other empires?" Last, I'm of the opinion that having a strong victory system - especially if its just one condition - can be something that the gameplay can be oriented around and which will make the overall gameplay BETTER. Let me break down that last point a little bit more. 4X games tend to have a steamroller problem (aka the rich get richer) - which you're certainly aware of. At the most simple level, controlling more planets gives you more resources, which lets you build more fleets to take over more planets, and so on. The player able to get ahead first tends to snowball in power towards their inevitable victory. The same process works for other typical victory conditions too - e.g. investing in tech means you unlock more ways to research faster, which lets you unlock more tech more quickly, etc. Obviously there are things that can and should be employed to mitigate the above. The snowball situation is, I'm convinced, a function of the typical victory conditions. This is because "reinvesting in your empire" over the course of the game is simultaneously and directly moving you down one of the victory paths. The outputs of the "engine" of you empire get fed back into the machine and your outputs grow and grow until you cross some winning threshold. The opportunity for 4X games to break from this situation is by having a victory system that requires investing your empires outputs in a direction that doesn't simultaneously continue to build your empire. If you have to make choices all throughout the game of whether to (A) invest in getting more planets/tech/econ to build your empire engine vs. (B) invest in advancing progress towards a victory state - suddenly all of those turn-by-turn decisions get a lot more interesting. Suddenly the game isn't about perfectly optimizing your growth and outputs (subject to random events and all that of course), but you're always faced with an interesting risk-reward or push your luck decision. Do you start investing in victory early and often at the expense of slowing down your growth a little, or do you try grow huge first for a big investment at the end? These alternative lines of investing in victory don't have to be complicated. In fact the games that have done this well a have kept it pretty simple. AoW3 Seals victory is one great example. You have to leave armies (usually strong ones) sitting on the seals to control them. That means that army isn't out expanding your empire and growing your engine. You have to make a choice of when to invest your military power in pursuit of victory and controlling the seals provides no other benefit to your empire other than accumulating points towards victory. Moreover it builds in some catchup mechanics - the player to first conquer a seal has to fight a huge neutral army, which can weaken their forces for a bit and create an opening for other players. The seals also periodically respawn large defending forces, which incurs attrition on your forces trying to hold it. Moreover, by having armies tied up trying t hold seals - it create a window of opportunity for other, perhaps weaker empires, to gain a relative advantage in attacking your cities and trying to build up power conventionally. It all works super well and captures what I'm getting at here. FWIW, Total War: Warhammer 2's Vortex Campaign works on much the same principle. This got way longer than I intended - but hopefully you see what I'm trying to get it. My points aren't about adding more victory conditions - as if that's some magic band-aid. Rather it's about focusing on fewer conditions but making sure they provide something interesting and fresh while strengthening the rest of the gameplay and at the same time resolving many of the problems that have plagued 4X since forever.
